Saturday, August 13, 2005
Back to the church "discussion"
If you like your church then you certainly don't want to leave it. What do you like about it? And what are we really talking about? The Bible says church is the people, but our concept of church is not about people. "What church do you go to?" "How was church?" "What time are you leaving for church?". I never, or rarely hear people talking about people as the body of Christ when they are speaking of church. We have a fixation, a paradigm, a direction of thinking, a concept that we just can't seem to break free of. Some might say "why should we break free? Break free from what? I am happy with my church experiences, why change?". If Church was supposed to be about personal and social enjoyment I would say we don't have to break free.
The Church are believers. If you believe Christ is God then you are a part of the church body. If the ear says he is not part of the body does it cease to be a part of the body? no. Let me shift to the concept of church as a gathering of believers. What is the purpose of structure in the church? To get the tasks and the overall duty, responsibility(joy), job, etc- to complete the Great Commission.
Acts- when the number of beleivers started to grow some of the duties were getting neglected- taking care. The apostles saw fit to choose or should i say administrate the Holy Spirit's choosing of some men to help with this task. meanwhile they would concentrate on Prayer and the teaching of the word. Great there was a need the community gets together and decides what to do.
This is the early church- they met together often, not just to study the Bible(which was part of their lives before they became Christians anyway- itwas a common social activity to go to the synagogue for some at least), they ate together, shared land etc. Now the Church today says "look this is why we meet 2-3 times a week and maybe more because this is the model we follow". Except they kind pick and choose what they want to do- I dont see anyone sharing all there possesions. It was for a season and most people thought the end of the world was comming. This sort of stuff happens after natural disasters, this sense of urgency and goodwill etc. Its not necessarily Christian. I agree there was a move of the Holy Spirit which made a unique set of circumstances and also responsibility in light of what the Spirit had revealed to them. Did it last?
No. In fact only a short time after the only Christians left in the city were the Apostles. Why? If God didn't move people out of that city Christianity would havce stayed there and probably died there. Persecution created the dispora- scattered believers. This is my point that "retreat mentality" is healthy to build up believers but only for a season after a while we get stale and selfish and we just get addicted to spiritual feelings, emotions, and events related to or sounding or feeling like the events or times we experienced God.
Notice I didnt say we get addicted to God but the things that surround Him. We end up trying to recreate it instead of letting Him create those times- here is key- WHEN, WHERE, and with WHOM, He wants.
In short we get complacent and we never grow even if we might like it.
Church services and meetings have become like College for us. College is good for learning (it depends what you put into it) for 4 years but after that you have to move on. Its a good time, an easy place to make friends who are like minded, its challenging, there is a large support group, etc.
What happens socially after people leave college? Its harder in this diaspora society we live in. Now we are surrounded by people from different life experiences etc and its difficult to find a niche because unlike college people arent having orientation and playing name games and having programs to encourage the social environment to grow.
This is a good thing- its time to grow. Find new ways to make friends etc- find a new way to live. IT SHOULD NOT BE THE SAME AS COLLEGE BECAUSE IT ISNT.
As church people its like we have never left the nest. we have a certain - very predictable method of weekly, biweekly, monthly, yearly scheduled and litergical meetings that we teach the world is "CHRISTIAN" its not! It is religeon a system.
For all the people getting into the defensive mode by now that they have to protect the church- What are you protecting? other that your confortable way of life. Its nice to know on sunday you will go to the same schedule etc etc. After 15 years?
My growth happens in one on one conversations and sometimes with a person who doesn't follow Christ. When I speak with Christians it rarely about who God is and more about an event they want me to goto, a complaint about an event, and event they are so busy preparing for they are irritable and dont have time to meet me for real fellowship, etc.
Its not Church its a "cristian lifestyle" and a very western one at that. Its no different than non christian events- which brings me to my next point why not just join a knitting class! Instead of a ten week sermon series on how to reach the lost- just go have a real conversation. That is hard to do.
We often decide on what church to go to after examining the churches in our area- I have been doing this for a year now. I live in Tokyo and whats funny is they all look pretty much the same as each other and like the ones in the US or Germany. Some have a Hawaiian style, some have an Austrailian upbeat style, some advertise for the "people who don't want just entertainment and want to really study the Bible". The world is laughing at us. Some might say "who cares, we are not here to please the world"- true but they are not laughing at us because we are radically serving Jesus.
Yes we need to hear the word of God- more important to STUDY it! That takes time and effort and is really a simple process of the Inductive Method- which shoyuld be taught to every church member in the first year-. But thats dangerous because then they will realize they doint really need the pastor to preach the word because they will be learning through the HS and a little effort, wrestling with the issues in the context of real life amoung the probing questions of non-believing friends.
Yes we need other believers for fellowship, encouragement, etc etc etc- but really although I met those friends in a church setting I the real fellowship happened when I risked my time and energy to see them outside of church and not just members of the opposite sex. I helped them move- or sat for coffee- gave them a ride to the airport (which is what jesus would have done if they had airports).
Church should be a training camp that we graduate from and move onto the practicum- The real world- its is still very much a ghetto- plain and simple in the classic sense of the word with the welfare attitude nurtured until we all have so many Christians self-help books on the shelf and so many event T-shirts in at our yard sales that need to -fill in the blank with any funny anecdote ---
Were stuck in a rut- and a rut is---- a grave with the ends knocked out (i stole that from Nick Fatato- who is not responsible for any of my extreme viewpoints- or is he?)
We should be teaching Christians to think for themselves but that is dangerous. What if they start cults or - oh no a new church?
Is anyone getting what I am saying?
Ill be clear- I am FOR the Church not Against- Non of the prophets were against the church- I am not a prophet- just stating the obvious. We need to drop our reliance on the system. The system needs to become less and He need s to become more becaus e the system has too much of us. We need to think more and take each whatever and bring it before God and get off autopilot. Its painful to leave the things we know but I beleive the missionary mentality needs to return back to church thinking.
I dont beleive I have said anything abusive against God or His people and this commentary is not an attack on any pastor or leader but more a cry(in the wilderness) to examine the task of the Great Commission, drop our plans and ask God what He requires for us to be doing in our unique situations and not just what everybody else is doing.
Are there any leaders out there that sense something stirring or just not right about the way weve been opperating as a church?
The Church are believers. If you believe Christ is God then you are a part of the church body. If the ear says he is not part of the body does it cease to be a part of the body? no. Let me shift to the concept of church as a gathering of believers. What is the purpose of structure in the church? To get the tasks and the overall duty, responsibility(joy), job, etc- to complete the Great Commission.
Acts- when the number of beleivers started to grow some of the duties were getting neglected- taking care. The apostles saw fit to choose or should i say administrate the Holy Spirit's choosing of some men to help with this task. meanwhile they would concentrate on Prayer and the teaching of the word. Great there was a need the community gets together and decides what to do.
This is the early church- they met together often, not just to study the Bible(which was part of their lives before they became Christians anyway- itwas a common social activity to go to the synagogue for some at least), they ate together, shared land etc. Now the Church today says "look this is why we meet 2-3 times a week and maybe more because this is the model we follow". Except they kind pick and choose what they want to do- I dont see anyone sharing all there possesions. It was for a season and most people thought the end of the world was comming. This sort of stuff happens after natural disasters, this sense of urgency and goodwill etc. Its not necessarily Christian. I agree there was a move of the Holy Spirit which made a unique set of circumstances and also responsibility in light of what the Spirit had revealed to them. Did it last?
No. In fact only a short time after the only Christians left in the city were the Apostles. Why? If God didn't move people out of that city Christianity would havce stayed there and probably died there. Persecution created the dispora- scattered believers. This is my point that "retreat mentality" is healthy to build up believers but only for a season after a while we get stale and selfish and we just get addicted to spiritual feelings, emotions, and events related to or sounding or feeling like the events or times we experienced God.
Notice I didnt say we get addicted to God but the things that surround Him. We end up trying to recreate it instead of letting Him create those times- here is key- WHEN, WHERE, and with WHOM, He wants.
In short we get complacent and we never grow even if we might like it.
Church services and meetings have become like College for us. College is good for learning (it depends what you put into it) for 4 years but after that you have to move on. Its a good time, an easy place to make friends who are like minded, its challenging, there is a large support group, etc.
What happens socially after people leave college? Its harder in this diaspora society we live in. Now we are surrounded by people from different life experiences etc and its difficult to find a niche because unlike college people arent having orientation and playing name games and having programs to encourage the social environment to grow.
This is a good thing- its time to grow. Find new ways to make friends etc- find a new way to live. IT SHOULD NOT BE THE SAME AS COLLEGE BECAUSE IT ISNT.
As church people its like we have never left the nest. we have a certain - very predictable method of weekly, biweekly, monthly, yearly scheduled and litergical meetings that we teach the world is "CHRISTIAN" its not! It is religeon a system.
For all the people getting into the defensive mode by now that they have to protect the church- What are you protecting? other that your confortable way of life. Its nice to know on sunday you will go to the same schedule etc etc. After 15 years?
My growth happens in one on one conversations and sometimes with a person who doesn't follow Christ. When I speak with Christians it rarely about who God is and more about an event they want me to goto, a complaint about an event, and event they are so busy preparing for they are irritable and dont have time to meet me for real fellowship, etc.
Its not Church its a "cristian lifestyle" and a very western one at that. Its no different than non christian events- which brings me to my next point why not just join a knitting class! Instead of a ten week sermon series on how to reach the lost- just go have a real conversation. That is hard to do.
We often decide on what church to go to after examining the churches in our area- I have been doing this for a year now. I live in Tokyo and whats funny is they all look pretty much the same as each other and like the ones in the US or Germany. Some have a Hawaiian style, some have an Austrailian upbeat style, some advertise for the "people who don't want just entertainment and want to really study the Bible". The world is laughing at us. Some might say "who cares, we are not here to please the world"- true but they are not laughing at us because we are radically serving Jesus.
Yes we need to hear the word of God- more important to STUDY it! That takes time and effort and is really a simple process of the Inductive Method- which shoyuld be taught to every church member in the first year-. But thats dangerous because then they will realize they doint really need the pastor to preach the word because they will be learning through the HS and a little effort, wrestling with the issues in the context of real life amoung the probing questions of non-believing friends.
Yes we need other believers for fellowship, encouragement, etc etc etc- but really although I met those friends in a church setting I the real fellowship happened when I risked my time and energy to see them outside of church and not just members of the opposite sex. I helped them move- or sat for coffee- gave them a ride to the airport (which is what jesus would have done if they had airports).
Church should be a training camp that we graduate from and move onto the practicum- The real world- its is still very much a ghetto- plain and simple in the classic sense of the word with the welfare attitude nurtured until we all have so many Christians self-help books on the shelf and so many event T-shirts in at our yard sales that need to -fill in the blank with any funny anecdote ---
Were stuck in a rut- and a rut is---- a grave with the ends knocked out (i stole that from Nick Fatato- who is not responsible for any of my extreme viewpoints- or is he?)
We should be teaching Christians to think for themselves but that is dangerous. What if they start cults or - oh no a new church?
Is anyone getting what I am saying?
Ill be clear- I am FOR the Church not Against- Non of the prophets were against the church- I am not a prophet- just stating the obvious. We need to drop our reliance on the system. The system needs to become less and He need s to become more becaus e the system has too much of us. We need to think more and take each whatever and bring it before God and get off autopilot. Its painful to leave the things we know but I beleive the missionary mentality needs to return back to church thinking.
I dont beleive I have said anything abusive against God or His people and this commentary is not an attack on any pastor or leader but more a cry(in the wilderness) to examine the task of the Great Commission, drop our plans and ask God what He requires for us to be doing in our unique situations and not just what everybody else is doing.
Are there any leaders out there that sense something stirring or just not right about the way weve been opperating as a church?
hd 3:22 PM